“It’s very difficult to understand hierarchy in circularity. Circularity means if A then B and if B then A, and the way that we can think about that and represent it is in flatness or in at least heterarchy. And it seems that we have a way of looking at the world which moves us from flatness into hierarchy and that that is something that we do with our thinking, and it’s very powerful and very useful, but it’s not something that we should be imposing on the world. It’s something we should understand as a way of thinking that leads to certain types of understanding.”